52/9: Northern Lights, by Philip Pullman

[maharetr]

I think the book's reputation precedes it for this one. I wanted to like it more than I actually did: female protagonist? atheism -- actual atheism -- as a starting point? Familiars that could talk and morph? It all sounded like a kink-hitter, but it all didn't quite work for me. It was at the very least a curious experience having a protagonist who I struggled to identify with, and I think, typing it out, that that's where most of my difficulties lay, despite the fact that the world was built well. Lyra was mostly someone inaccessible to me, particularly at the point where Pullman says: "Here she is, in the enemy's den, and she's totally calm because she lacks imagination and is certain that things will all work out fine." And I'm blinking and thinking: "okay, if she isn't concerned, why should I be?"

I felt a little stirring when she's standing in front of the Aurora, holding Pan and saying: "It's just us, together. Let's go!" and that's enough to make me pick up The Subtle Knife, and because I'm curious in spite of myself about how she'll view this 'new' world she's found herself in. (Plus, I bought all three in one hit, in very pretty covers. :))

Comments

[psycho-tabby.livejournal.com]

I disliked the movie, but I really liked the book.

I'm really surprised the anti religion thing didn't register with you, they were slathering it on like a tonne of bricks.

The Lyra actor couldn't act for shit and really pissed me off. I wished the bear would hit her at one point.

[mr-booboo.livejournal.com]

I wished the bear would hit her at one point.

OMG! Yes!

The anti-religion thing rarely registers for me when it comes to fantasy because I assume that it's a new made up world. If the world has it's own religion, great, if it doesn't, great. It's someone else's universe and it isn't real. Plus, in the HDM universe, while there is no real established religion, there is a belief (or fact) that the person is interconnected with their daemon (or animal) which in a way is still a sort of spirituality. And when their daemon is removed from them, part of their soul is also removed and they can't cope.

What the difference between that belief and a religious belief? Absolutely nothing except for the establishment. Oh wait, they call that the Magisterium don't they? Religion, spirituality, daemon... it's all just a different name for the same thing. Faith or belief in something other than one self.

So God isn't in this (thus the atheism aspect), but what's in it is a replacement they call daemon. I seriously don't see a difference. OTOH, I'm not fundamentalist and I don't intentionally look for these themes. I'm only offended if the book/movie is poo-pooing other beliefs because at the end of the day, it's no body's business what someone else believes in a god or not, it's how they chose to live their lives. Plus, it's a story. Big deal. I find the Harry Potter books a lot more damaging to kids than this series.

[maharetr.livejournal.com]

in the HDM universe, while there is no real established religion, Did you typo that? ;)

I see the daemons not so much as a belief as Pullman saying: "for the purposes of these books, everyone has souls, they're just expressed differently in each world." The daemons are people's souls, not just parts, which is why people who had been 'cut' from their daemons were actually called zombis (sic!).

God is very much in the later books at least, and even in Northern Lights, characters quote a modified version of the bible (I haven't read the last two yet, but I've read broad spoilers)

I'm more bugged by the alethiometer than the daemons or the anti-organised religion: It appears to tell the truth (as far as I've read it's spot on), but how?

On a slightly different topic: I find the Harry Potter books a lot more damaging to kids than this series. *head tilt* Interesting choice of words? :)

[mr-booboo.livejournal.com]

No, I didn't typo it. I'm saying that a fundamental atheist stance is the flip side of the coin. And I'm definitely drawing links between the Magisterium and the Vatican. I also think that the soul/daemon is in itself a spirituality or belief structure, albeit a more tangible one. Again, having only read Northern Lights, I can only go by what I have read and watched, and to be honest, I don't remember much from the book.

I just remember that when I read it, religion or lack thereof didn't even enter my mind as one of the themes.

The alethiometer is a bother, but not as bothersome as the bearer and reader of all truth is also one of the story's biggest liars. I can only assume so as she supposedly lacks imagination.

My issues with Harry Potter has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with bigotry and categorising everybody. Gryffindor = good, Slytherin = bad. Big giant blanket statements/generalisations and a black and white universe terrifies me. And idolising athletes over academics... don't even get me started. Don't get me wrong, I love the Potterverse. I just hate the canon. I find it extremely bothersome and the politics horrifies me.

I get that it is a kids book, but JKR doesn't even bother to go beyond the 2 dimensional characterisations. She doesn't give her secondary characters the opportunity to develop. There seems to be no other house beyond Gryffindor. And this thing that courage or bravery is the most important trait is ridiculous. There doesn't seem to have any real consequences for actions if they are the "good guys" and OMG, don't even start about the epilogue. STUPID!

Um... the end?

[maharetr.livejournal.com]

Hee! Total WORD to the Harry Potter stuff.

To me, the fact that Northern Lights quoted Genesis and talked about original sin seemed heavily religious, but I pay the fact that it's been a long time since you read it (and the potential that it didn't register as such with you) :)

[mr-booboo.livejournal.com]

The religious stuff rarely registers with me unless it's part of the plot or the characterisation. The race stuff always do and sometimes I have to take a step back to make sure I'm not just being sensitive about it.

Really? It quoted Genesis? Bloody hell. I need a reread.

[psycho-tabby.livejournal.com]

Ahh ditto.

[psycho-tabby.livejournal.com]

Oh I read things very differently to you then. Lots of the stuff I read I see in relation to our world and I think the comparison it what makes it often so good, for example Diskworld would not be half as funny if you weren't comparing the real world to it all the time. Northern Lights has similar city names and similar infrastructure and I find I unconsciously compare it to the real world.

I'm surprised about the Harry Potter thing. How do you see them as harmful? Especially as they are obviously fantasy?

[mr-booboo.livejournal.com]

I make comparisons, but I also chuck out a lot of my expectations and preconceived ideas if it's a completely new universe. If it's an AU, then I treat that differently too.

But yeah, we read and process differently. Isn't that great?

The Potterverse...see above comments. It has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with values and generalisations. If I had kids under 13, I don't know if I could let them read it without discussing some of the themes involved. I would like my non-existent children to be a lot more broadminded than that.